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[00:00:49] Angela Briones: Hey everyone.

Welcome back to the podcast. My name is Angela Briones, and on today's episode I'm chatting with Brittt Barton. She's an LGBTQ plus mindset coach, and we recorded this episode a while back, but I'm really excited to share this with you now because we talk about so many different things, but I feel like the bookends of this conversation.

Are what it's like when we're coming out to ourselves and before we even share that with anyone and what it feels like to be seen during that time. It's a really important and impactful time. And then also when you're at the other end of that, you've been out for a while, you're grounded in yourself and you wear everything that you are with pride, what it means to the younger generation who are LGBTQ and the way they watch how we move, how we shape the world around us, and how that shapes their world as well.

Now, like I mentioned earlier, Brittt and I recorded this conversation a while back and I'm really glad to dive into the archives and finally share it with you. Britt is so thoughtful in the way she shares her story, and I hope you enjoy this episode. This is Britt Barton.

[00:01:51] Ep. 45 with Britt Barton

[00:01:51] Angela Briones: I saw a post on your Instagram that I wanted to start with 'cause I thought it was really thoughtful.

You had a post of like the first person you came out to was your grandmother. 

[00:02:02] Britt Barton: Oh, 

[00:02:02] Angela Briones: yes. And that she was really. Like really just receptive to everything and gave you a gift. Why your grandmother? What's the relationship there and how did that go? 

[00:02:13] Britt Barton: You know, the interesting thing is people talk about like coming out their families.

I never really came out my family. 

[00:02:23] Angela Briones: I have that with my dad. 

[00:02:25] Britt Barton: Yes. I didn't come 

[00:02:26] Angela Briones: out to him. 

[00:02:27] Britt Barton: Yes. Like I just. It was never this sit down conversation like, mom, I'm gay, or Grandma and I, I come from a family of strong women and I did have this moment in college where I sent my mom this email. I still don't know to this day if she read the email.

I have no idea. It was national coming out day. And so I think I sent an email and I just said, Hey mom, like it's national coming out day. Guess what? I'm gay. And that was it. [00:03:00] 

[00:03:01] Angela Briones: Seriously, 

[00:03:02] Britt Barton: that was it. Yes, that was it. And I, to this day, I dunno if she read that email. I don't even know if my mom knows how to check emails.

[00:03:11] Angela Briones: So it's still sitting in unread. On some A OL account, 

[00:03:15] Britt Barton: it could very well be there. But they knew, right? And they knew because, well, A, I was. Never really dating guys. And if I did, it was like they, they were in, but not, like, you could tell there was just nothing there. And, and my siblings would always make fun of me or ask or say things like, oh, you don't have a boyfriend?

Are you gay? Or you this, you know, and I'd never had an answer because I didn't know, and it really wasn't. Until I went to college that I started doing things like just wearing rainbow, like I'd wear like a rainbow, um, sweatband, or I had bracelets that had rainbows on them. So I was, I was expressing it, but not speaking it.

And. Grandmas and moms are intuitive, and I think my mom knew first, but she, as my mom is herself, she doesn't speak things like she doesn't talk about them. Even to this day, my nieces and nephews are gay. I have some nieces and nephews that are, um, transgender that aren't my mom's grandkids. They're more my dad's grandkids.

But still, it's sort of like. She knows and she accepts us, but I don't know if she just doesn't have the language. I'm not sure. And she found some things in my college dorm room and she didn't really speak on it. And that was the Lesbian Karma Sutra and books like that. Like Come on now. Like come on.

Yeah. She goes, oh yeah. She just said, oh yeah, I saw that book and I put it away like, that's all she said. So my grandmother was the first person I felt. Acknowledged it and I didn't have to say anything to her. She saw how I was and she saw how I was dressing. And when my mom was still trying to put me in flowers and dresses and not paying attention to who I was, it was that moment that my grandma walked in with a pair of rainbow Haines boy boxers and she goes, uh, Britttany, she has like that voice.

and she goes, ah, you like these? I think, I think these might be for you. I just looked at her and the wave of peace that came across me was just like, oh, finally like you, you know? And you get it and you love me. And to this day, she is an 88-year-old woman. She has dementia and it's still that.

Between us and I noticed it once my niece came out, my niece had a daughter, and now my grandmother, she can't really, you know, keep together like who the kids are for, or [00:06:00] she sometimes knows our name, sometimes she doesn't. But with my niece, it's just hilarious. 'cause my niece walks in with her daughter, who's five now.

And you know, my grandma's like Lissa, who's that little girl, and she's like, that's my daughter. And she goes, huh. I didn't know you had a kid. You, you, you been with men. Like, she just, she'll say things like that. Like, huh? Like, and she's just confused, like she's 

[00:06:26] Angela Briones: out loud. 

[00:06:26] Britt Barton: Yeah, just out loud. Like, just confusing, like baffled.

Like, what do you mean you're with men? Yeah. You know, like, it just doesn't, doesn't register for her. So that's how it was with me. And so that's why I always say my grandma's the first one that accepted me because I felt it right away. 

[00:06:41] Angela Briones: So I'm imagining like. Your grandmother gives you these boxers of all things, right?

Yeah. And rainbow. 

[00:06:48] Britt Barton: Yeah. 

[00:06:48] Angela Briones: And then what was your reaction though? Were you just like, oh cool, thanks, and then like, move on? Or did y'all ever have a conversation about it? 

[00:06:57] Britt Barton: Never had a conversation about it. To this day, we've never had a conversation, but I held onto those boxers like they were my life until I couldn't hold onto it anymore.

But 

[00:07:12] Britt Barton: Yeah. It was just understood and once I started bringing people around, I would usually start with bringing them to my grandma's house 

[00:07:21] Angela Briones: and she was just cool. 

[00:07:23] Britt Barton: Yep. 

[00:07:23] Angela Briones: About it and Yep. No questions, no conversations. You would just, you 

[00:07:28] Britt Barton: I just showed up as me. 

[00:07:29] Angela Briones: There's no problems. 

[00:07:31] Britt Barton: Mm-hmm. None. 

[00:07:32] Angela Briones: That is awesome.

[00:07:33] Britt Barton: My moms would come around, but she, I could always tell from my mom's face, and I realized later on, because I thought it was because she wasn't accepting me. That was my fear. Mm-hmm. And because of that fear I had. Just years of just turmoil around not being able to come out and not feeling like myself and not feeling accepted to the point of just multiple suicide attempts.

'cause I felt like I, I wasn't accepted, so I almost wish we would've had a conversation or. Maybe she just acknowledged something. But what I noticed later on that it wasn't that she wasn't accepting of me or who I was, it was that she wasn't accepting of the girls I was bringing around. And so that, and I only realized that when I went there with my, my current wife now.

And when I went home with her, I just told her, I said, you know, I'm not really out to my family. I don't really know how they're going to take this. And we were in Chicago and it was Christmas, and I said, we have two options. I said, we can fly there, but then we can't leave if they don't accept us or we can drive there.

And if we drive, we have an option. 

Which was the most bizarre thing is I'm like, I'm bringing home this white woman, which my family was [00:09:00] pretty accepting of, I think in, in their own way. It was like, yay for them. Um, so it was kind of funny 'cause it was like a lot of undertones of racism in there that also came out with my family and it was almost like, at least she's, she's with a white woman.

I was like, wow, okay. Um, but then she was 27 years older than me. So it was not only was I presenting a woman, I was presenting a woman from another ethnicity, I was presenting a woman from another generation. So I had no idea what was gonna happen. And yeah, they embraced her with just like open arms and it.

Almost got to a point where instead of seeing me, they wanted to see her. So I would come home and they would not let me come home without her. So that was when I realized that that's crazy me. Yeah. That it, it, they accepted me. It's just they were waiting for me to find the right person. 

[00:09:56] Angela Briones: So do you think before that, if things you were feeling so, so.

Deeply were because you felt they were rejecting you, but the reality is they were rejecting the people that you were dating. Is that 

[00:10:09] Britt Barton: I don't think it was rejecting me.

A, it was the people like, especially this one girl. It was definitely the person and the people, but B, I think they were also processing because I do believe that it's a process coming from a traditionally very Catholic upbringing, a very Catholic background. Although I came from a family of strong women where.

Nobody was married for the most part, like we just took care of each other as women. There was still, I believe that expectation of, you know, you're going to follow the Catholic traditions, you're gonna follow the Catholic faith. If you get married, if you decide to get married, it'll be to a man. You will probably have children.

But at the same time, they were like, well, Brittt's also gonna, college had these ideas of who. They thought I was going to become, and because I was by the book very much like I went to church, I was like very much involved in the church. I was, you know, by the book in terms of going to school. I was like, I'm gonna go to school, I'm gonna go to college, I'm gonna go to grad.

Like I was that kid because I was very much. Trying to please them in making sure, especially coming from a family where most people weren't college educated or didn't have good jobs. I wanted to be that person that could set that standard, especially for my nieces and nephews who were coming up behind me that I was raising at the time.

So I think a lot of it was processing, like she's done everything right, but there's this one thing that's off. There's one thing that's a little bit different, right? And so I think it was still very much rooted in the church and in being from the south and in being that we were Catholic and, [00:12:00] and those ideologies that came with that, that they still had to process and work through, and I was the first person in my family to come out and show them something outside of that box.

So I don't think they necessarily had words for it just yet until I started. Presenting it to them, and I think it took a little bit and a few times of me presenting before they could start to wrap their heads around it. 

[00:12:26] Angela Briones: I totally understand that. And what, what year was that though? Just for some context, like what year after you have your grandmother gives you this gift and as their in the middle of their processing.

[00:12:40] Britt Barton: That was college. So that was about, I started college in 2004. 

[00:12:46] Angela Briones: Okay. 

[00:12:47] Britt Barton: So around that time, ’04 and ‘08was all of the processing happening and I didn't bring my wife along for the ride until maybe 2010. 

[00:12:59] Angela Briones: Did you know any other gay people at that time? What were your examples of community? Because I didn't really feel like I had any for a long time.

You know, especially when you're in the closet, you're trying to figure that out. 

[00:13:12] Britt Barton: Yeah. 

[00:13:13] Angela Briones: And then you're trying to create a community. 

[00:13:15] Britt Barton: You are. 

[00:13:15] Angela Briones: Where you're coming out, 

[00:13:16] Britt Barton: you're, 

[00:13:16] Angela Briones: you know, 

[00:13:19] Britt Barton: I have to say I was extremely lucky. And this sounds so counterintuitive to what I'm sure parents try to do with their kids, but I felt like I was really lucky because just as the stereotype goes in the lesbian coming out movies, I went to an all girl Catholic school.

I just, I just laugh every time I say that because my first, my first school I went to, it wasn't that. I didn't, I still didn't know, and I was actually in this uncomfortable dynamic with, um, this teacher at the time. Who was my Spanish teacher at the first school who was a lesbian but couldn't come out, and she was projecting a lot onto me, and I, I wasn't putting it together.

Um, and I just felt really uncomfortable around her. And so I left that school and the next year was when I enrolled in an all-girl Catholic school. And so like my sophomore year of school, I started to notice how the other girls in the school interacted. And I think maybe by my junior year I started to put words to what.

I was feeling, and then I started to see other girls who were already out, who were, I mean, they were out, as you know, lesbians. I felt like they had been out for years and I felt like I was late to the game and I could not be part of the club. But at the same time, I had just like one or two people that I would just pay attention to or I would talk to, or I didn't really.

Share much about myself, but I was [00:15:00] curious. And so it helped not to say I had a community, 'cause all my best friends, both of my best friends who are still my best friends, are still straight. I didn't come out to them until, you know, college as well. But I felt like there was some safety in that for me because I, I didn't feel so alone.

I just, I just felt alone in the sense that I felt like I was actually coming out a little bit later than they were. So I didn't have that built in community and then. When I went to college, I decided that that was gonna be the moment that I decided to come out as myself. So I started college just out.

And at that point it, I was, I was going between, maybe I'm bisexual, maybe I'm a lesbian, maybe I'm this, and I started college as like college, nope, I'm a lesbian. Let's do this. And whoever becomes my friend is gonna be my friend for who I am. And at that point, I started to build community in college. 

[00:15:56] Angela Briones: So, do you still identify as a lesbian?

[00:16:00] Britt Barton: Huh? Funny you ask. Um, yes. 

[00:16:05] Angela Briones: The reason I ask is because I saw your pronouns were she heard they them. 

[00:16:09] Britt Barton: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:09] Angela Briones: So, I wondered if your identity and your, you know. Well, if your identity had changed a bit or evolved, I should say. 

[00:16:18] Britt Barton: Yes, it's definitely evolved since then. Uh, and I'm, I, it's funny because I feel like I'm in a place in my life right now where it's almost like this returning back into myself and questioning again, who am I, what's the language that I use, and does it matter?

And that's the fun question.. Yeah. 

[00:16:42] Angela Briones: Good question. 

[00:16:43] Britt Barton: So I use it interchangeably because I feel like I can, so some days I say lesbian, but as I'm evolving and, and expanding my knowledge of myself and who I am, I've really shifted my language to say queer. Because I find that my gender identity has always been very fluid in how I present.

And sometimes I'm in more of a feminine energy. Sometimes I'm in more of a masculine energy and it flows. I don't think I would ever consider myself non-binary, more than just fluid. Um, and I, and I like the freedom to be fluid. And same thing with my, my sexual identity. Now I'm finding that. As more and more people are coming out as, as well now coming out into the light as transgender are coming out as non-binary or gender fluid.

I notice my attraction to people. I'm noticing it's not just to women. And so I've actually been joking with people late lately because I'm like, you know, like that I, I work with a lot of people that say they're late to lesbian and that's like. The new thing that people say. I said, oh, what if I said I'm late to straight?[00:18:00] 

Because now I'm like noticing people of other genders or like transgender people who are coming out as like female to male or even male to female too. But I'm like, there is such a variety of people that I'm like, what? That person's really attractive. And so yeah, I'm like, I'm kind of late to straight here, because I never really explored that side of myself.

But even then, it's still a queer, you know. Dynamic. Like I'm still very much, whether I was with a transgender person or not, still very queer or even pansexual or so, so yeah, I'm just, I'm going with all of it and I'm sure language is just gonna keep evolving, which is even more fun. 

[00:18:40] Angela Briones: And I mean so much of it too could be that, like we were talking about just a second ago, about, you know, it being 2004 and what your environment looked like.

Yeah. I mean, I'm trying to remember mine as well. I barely knew anybody who was gay, much less transgender or non-binary. So maybe it was just as simple as you just didn't know. You didn't and didn't. So that's why right now, maybe it feels fluid to you. Yeah. Because in a way, maybe it's a, you know, kind of a new concept to you because you just haven't had it in your world.

Until recently and then now that, you know, you're kind of like, something about that resonates with me. 

[00:19:20] Britt Barton: Exactly. You nailed it. Like, because the, the language wasn't there. That's what I've, I, I worked in HIV for, and I still do, um, some work in the HIV space, but I was there for about a decade as a lead trainer and I was teaching on, um, like cultural sensitivity within the LGBTQ space and part of the training, it was like a day long training that we would do, and part of the training was around language and what are the words and what do they mean?

I mean, you would find so many different words and so many different terminologies. We would spend half the day just matching, like what goes with what and what this word means and what this means. And then every time we had the training, somebody else would come out with a new like, oh, have you heard of this?

Or Have you heard of that? And so I would always teach like, Hey, this. Some of what you might hear when you're within the communities, how these communities, however, language is always evolving. And then we would talk about it like from generational standpoints too. So like our generation right now, the millennial generation, redefining queer and reclaiming queer, I always tell people like, that was not a part of my wife's generation.

She was born in ’59. So that word was seen as derogatory back then. Only lately has it been reclaimed. And now with the new generation of kiddos coming up, the Gen Z, I mean, they're just blowing it up. Like they're just like, these are now my new pronouns. These the words we're using. This is the new terminology.

So it's, it's really great to see language evolve in the way it is evolving, and [00:21:00] I'm open to all of it. I'm like, this is what needs to happen and I'm in for it. So yeah, it is that new questioning of myself, of like, well, that was not a word for me back in 2004, but 2024, this is a word and I'm, I'm for it.

I'm with it. I feel this, like I resonate more here. 

[00:21:16] Angela Briones: Interesting. Yeah. I've kind of had my own thought process around the word queer as well, because I'm Gen X. Is it Gen X? Yeah. Just under Boomer. 

[00:21:26] Britt Barton: Yeah. 

[00:21:26] Angela Briones: Is that it? Okay. 

[00:21:27] Britt Barton: Yep. 

[00:21:27] Angela Briones: I'm Gen X. And you know, even in my generation it was a derogatory word. 

[00:21:33] Britt Barton: Yep. 

[00:21:34] Angela Briones: I definitely knew that.

You know, and it was just like, if I heard that word, it was not a good thing. 

[00:21:38] Britt Barton: Yep. 

[00:21:39] Angela Briones: Hearing it now I do get a different sense. Of what that word embodies. It's not the same thing. It's not, which is a wonderful thing. It's, 

[00:21:48] Britt Barton: it's you. It's, and, and that's how I feel too. Like, because I, I was, you know, I'm like early millennials, so I, I also grew up hearing it and I was like, you don't say that.

And it really wasn't until I started doing these trainings where I learned from my audience that it was reclaimed. And that's when I was like, oh, I like that. And now that I'm, I'm working with the community, I really had to rethink like, who am I and how am I gonna identify? And once I said, I was like, I could do lesbian, I could do this, but once I said the word queer, I was like, oh my gosh, that makes so much sense.

I, yeah, I, I am a queer coach. Like, yeah, that's me. 

[00:22:24] Angela Briones: Going back to what you were saying earlier about your mom specifically, and then her not having the language, right? 

[00:22:31] Britt Barton: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:32] Angela Briones: To have the conversation with you that I'm sure she probably wanted to have and you might have wanted to have it too. I mean, these conversations are uncomfortable.

Yeah. Really. You know, I mean, they're uncomfortable. They're, they're difficult. They're, they don't feel good. But we, you know, so a lot, I totally resonated when you said like, we just never had that conversation, which just like kept going through it. I've had those moments where you just. Just go. Yeah. And it just is, and you never really talk about it.

Right. But now that some time has passed, have y'all ever talked about it more or do you share more? And I mean, you're a queer coach for the the LGBTQ community. How has that changed your conversations with your family? You know about identity, about

[00:23:17] Britt Barton: yeah. 

[00:23:17] Angela Briones: life. Are they more open to everything now? Do they feel more comfortable?

[00:23:23] Britt Barton: Let's just say this, we had a family reunion about a month ago, and we had to pick t-shirt colors for the family and, and so my grandma came from a family of, I think she had like eight or nine siblings. Something like a huge family, right? They were basing the t-shirt colors off of each sibling and all, most of the siblings have have passed away, with exception of my grandma, my great aunt, and like maybe a couple of other people or maybe everybody else has passed away.

So they were picking a T-shirt color based on each sibling. And [00:24:00] so everybody picked a shirt except for my family, 'cause I was still herding the cats. And we noticed that it was all rainbow colors. And so my oldest sister, who I thought at that time also didn't accept me, but has turned out to be one of my biggest allies.

She put in the group text 'cause I'm like, okay, these are the colors that are left. We can pick red. I said, or we could just go with like a gray shirt. And this is during pride month. And my oldest sister, she goes, well, it is Pride month. Uh, grandma is what we call her grandma. She goes, grandma did raise all of her, her siblings.

So she was the oldest girl and she raised everybody. She goes, she did raise all of her siblings. So since they're all picking rainbow colors, why don't we just do a rainbow tie dye shirt? And my entire family showed up rainbow shirts, so, yes. The reason too is now my nieces and nephews are out. So the conversations that I have with my family now, they're not necessarily about me because I'm good.

I'm in a great place. I don't have these challenges around who I am and my identity. So once I felt like I was in a good spot, my job became making sure that my babies were okay. Because they're like my kids. And when they came out or they started to come out and I saw how they were struggling, that was an opportunity for me to step up to the plate.

And I felt like I no longer had a choice to not be out because at that point, their lives depended on it. And I knew I never wanted them to go through. What I went through. And so I did not have to have a conversation around, Hey, I'm this, I'm gay. I'm, you know, a part of the community -accept me. It became, Hey, this is what I went through and because I went through this, you almost lost me.

And then it became, so what are we gonna do so we can make sure that the ones that are coming up are okay? Because I don't wanna lose them and I know you don't either. So that was the conversation. 

[00:26:26] Angela Briones: And so much of like when we're hesitant to come out and be ourselves, it kind of loops back to what you said at the very beginning, which was, you know, your grandmother gives you this random thing.

Yeah. That symbolizes. Acceptance to you. And I totally get it. 'cause I had a moment with my grandmother and I, I mean, I couldn't have, I was so young, but I didn't know who I was. But I know, like you said earlier, they're in tune to these things, right? They are. And something came on the news [00:27:00] and it was a protest about the gay community and she just grabbed my hand, uh, leaned over and whispered, God doesn't make mistakes.

[00:27:09] Britt Barton: Wow. 

[00:27:10] Angela Briones: That's all she said. 

[00:27:11] Britt Barton: Wow. 

[00:27:11] Angela Briones: But I internalized that the same way you said you did that with, you know, your grandmother's gift, you internalize it and it's a marker, and it's the most meaningful marker of your life. I just feel like it goes back to this thing of you really need to hear from the people around you from.

Your family, your chosen family, some sort of acceptance, you need to hear it, you know what I mean? You need to hear like, I dunno whether it has to do with the TV show. I, you know, I'm specifically thinking about, I had a chat with this gentleman. His name is Ben Green. He was talking about he's a trans man and he was talking about that he knew his family was accepting, accepting of the gay community.

'cause they would watch Modern Family together. 

[00:27:58] Britt Barton: Oh yes. 

[00:27:58] Angela Briones: But he didn't know if he would be accepted as a trans person. And that's where his fear was rooted, right? Mm-hmm. Because  We have to least have some sort of like signal or message that we're gonna be okay. 'cause that's where disconnect happens. That's where exactly all the fear on our end happens.

And then there's a lot of questions, I think on our parents' end. And I don't know, you've, you know, you probably have a lot of these conversations or. What is it that we need and what is it that our families can do to kind of demonstrate just in the smallest way, in a whisper of God doesn't make mistakes, or here's something with a rainbow.

You know, what's the smallest thing that can do to demonstrate, Hey, I see you and I love you. I think that might be all it takes. Right? Right. Or at least as a start. 

[00:28:50] Britt Barton: I think so. Yeah. I mean, like I said, to this day, I never sat down with my. Hey, family, you know, I, I just wanna let you know like I'm, I'm gay or I'm this, and I, and part of me never felt like I needed to do that because, you know, I was of the mindset of like, they didn't come out to me as straight, right?

So, right. Yeah. So it was sort of like, why does the spotlight have to be on me? I'm okay as I am, and I'm a person except me, as I'm, so I do think that those small gestures of even my sister saying. Just a month ago, like, Hey, it's Pride month, and we just went to the Pride Parade. Let's make rainbow shirts.

Like even that was, it hit me where it's just like, wow. You know? Yeah. Like again, it was that moment of thank you for seeing me. Thank you for seeing. My nieces and nephews and you know, potentially your child someday because she also has a son and who knows, you know? And so it is those little gestures.

And I think like you're saying, you know, with this person who you know, is like, I'm watching Modern Family with my family, but I'm still wondering, will they accept me as, as a trans [00:30:00] person? Like what does it look like to. Be inclusive of like all TV shows or, or watch a show where they're talking about somebody who's transitioning and what that process could look like for them.

I think all of those things are really important. I mean, I even think like walking down the street and. When I'm picking a neighborhood, I will look for like who has a, maybe like a pride flag, like the inclusive pride flag in their window. Or in Chicago, A lot of times it was on their lawn, but being in Texas, like I look for those things.

Yeah, because I wanna know that. Hey, this is a, a welcoming place. This is, this is more like a safe space, right? Because when we're coming out, the biggest question is with my family, am I gonna be loved? Are they going to accept me? And then also, am I going to be safe? Because a lot of times, not everybody's safe, they get kicked out.

They're, you know, shunned from their families. They, they end up homeless. So safety is, is number one up for a lot of us. 

[00:31:03] Angela Briones: That's so true. I loved this conversation with you. 

[00:31:08] Britt Barton: Well, I appreciated this too. I appreciated just you having me on and then reconnecting and, and talking again. Yes. You have such a, you have such a calming energy, so I love that.

[00:31:17] Angela Briones: Thank you. No, thank, this was a great conversation. I appreciated it a lot.