Transcript via Descript.

[00:00:00] Angela: Welcome to The Gay Podcast for Everyone, a podcast where my LGBTQ+ community and our allies can come together in conversation and keep building stronger ones together. Whether you are in the LGBTQ+ fam, or you're an ally, welcome. This is The Gay Podcast for Everyone.

[00:00:21] Episode Sneak Peek

[00:00:21] Jen Grosshandler: - and I just remember one day she was in fourth grade, we were getting ready for school.

And it was your typical day that you know folks have kids got your water bottles and your backpacks, and there's like chaos and you're like packing sandwiches, like the whole thing. I look over and Chazzie, there were tears just coming down and I had no idea why. And so I ran over there and I'm like, honey, what is it?

John was with me like, what's wrong? What happened? What? What happened? What happened? Did you fall? What happened? And Chazzie looked at us and said, you know, mom, dad, what happens if I'm. A girl because I'm, I'm a girl and what's gonna happen to me? Are you gonna love me? Well, my friends, well, my teachers love me, so that happened.

[00:01:11] Intro

[00:01:11] Angela: Hello, hello and welcome back to The Gay Podcast for Everyone. My name is Angela Briones and I wanna take a second to say thank you for sticking around with me while the podcast was on a very unplanned hiatus. Because it's been a minute since my last episode, so I appreciate you more than you know now.

This episode today is truly a gem, y'all, and I feel like I was gifted this episode because through Lisa Brennan, who you heard back on episode 20, I was introduced to The GenderCool Project and to today's guest, Jen Grosshandler. When Jen's daughter came out to her as transgender, she found more misinformation than anything - often from people who had never even met a trans person. So she wanted to change that. And in this episode, Jen joins me to talk about what it was like when her child came out to her and how it sparked the idea for The GenderCool Project, which has now made a global impact. I recorded this conversation with Jen last year, and honestly y'all, it has stayed with me ever since.

And when I left the conversation, all I could do was think about this quote from Viola Davis, where she says, “your purpose is not what you do, it's what happens to people when you do what you do”. 

And by the end of this episode, I know you'll understand. 

This is Jen Grosshandler.

[00:02:31] When your child comes out

[00:02:31] Angela: As I was thinking of this conversation that we were gonna have today, I was thinking, you know, when you come out, you know as an L-G-B-T-Q person, when you come out, it's terrifying to tell your family and tell your parents specifically that you're gay. 

You know, hold the secret, you're trans.

[00:03:00] Can we go back to that moment of coming out? From your perspective as a parent, what were you thinking and what were you feeling at that time? What was that like? 

[00:03:09] Jen Grosshandler: Yeah, so John and I, my husband 

[00:03:12] Angela: mm-hmm. 

[00:03:13] Jen Grosshandler: We've been together for like 130 years. He's so, he's just awesome. I mean, he's the coolest. We are the parents of four kids.

We're here in Chicago. We were known as your typical family. We were known in the community as the family of four boys, and it was quite a scene because, you know, I'd bring us all to the grocery store or into the library, or maybe if we were in an airport taking a flight. It was all of these little ones running around and we, it was a scene, right?

Because there's just so many of them. So when, when our youngest was born, you know. Our fourth son. I think about that kiddo born into this environment in our house that was so dang masculine. Mm-hmm. I mean, it was like the perfect place to raise boys. Mm-hmm. We were good at it. We had done it 1, 2, 3 times before.

[00:04:11] Angela: Right. 

[00:04:11] Jen Grosshandler: And so this kiddo of ours walked into this. Perfect environment, you know, theoretically our son. And the fact is that she was never, ever, that. She was always and will always be our daughter and her name is Chazzie and she is 19 now. She is living her best life. And I remember back when she was two and three and four years old.

We didn't really understand what was going on. We didn't, you know, we thought we were this great rainbow family because, I mean, Angela, my sister, is a proud lesbian and my brother-in-law is gay, and we thought we just were so knowledgeable and honey, we didn't know what we didn't know. And so as Chazzie continued to grow and take us metaphorically by the hand, she showed us who she was.

And we just needed to get educated and we thought we were doing all the right things and we were trying to be as supportive as we could. We still didn't quite understand what was going on. And I just remember one day she was in fourth grade, we were getting ready for school and it was your typical day that you know folks with kids got your water bottles and your backpacks and there's like chaos and you're like packing sandwiches, like the whole thing.

I look over and Chazzie there were tears running down. I had no idea why. And so I ran over there and I'm like, honey, what is it? John was with me. We're like, what's wrong? What happened? What? What happened? What happened? Did you fall? What happened? And Chazzie looked at us and said, you know, mom, dad, what happens if I'm a girl?

Because [00:06:00] I am a girl and what's gonna happen to me? Are you gonna love me? Well, my friends, well, my teachers love me. So that happened, and that was it for us as parents and as a family. That was it. We grabbed Chazzie, held her, and we said to her, we're going to make sure that you have the best life ever because we believe you.

We believe you. 

[00:06:32] Angela: Blown away because Chazzie was so young, you know, fourth grade. And to say those things and to be that scared, I feel that I remember feeling, you know, Will, my family still love me? I wasn't that young though. And so that just, ugh, like that crushes me in a way. Do you know what I mean? Like how scared this young kiddo had to be.

But were you prepared for that conversation? Like you said, you kind of had a little inkling of something or no? 

[00:07:03] Jen Grosshandler: Think so many families and parents who are raising transgender and non-binary kiddos who are trying to step up and be the best they can be. All of us go through a period of, and again, I can only speak for myself, although I am in community with just hundreds if not thousands of parents.

[00:07:24] Angela: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:24] Jen Grosshandler: At this point, and you know, are you prepared? Look here, here's the thing - parents love their kids. And through our experience raising our four kids, we have had to embrace all sorts of change. So Chazzie's three older brothers, I mean, we've gone through all sorts of journeys with these boys, right? Her three older brothers, you know, they're launched, they're like 27, 25, and 23, and they're, you know, they've gone on their own journeys.

[00:07:59] Embrace Change

[00:07:59] Jen Grosshandler: And so I think all parents, number one. We learn things that that I think are really valuable lessons. And one of those lessons is, I talk a lot about this, is to embrace change. Sometimes things with your kids are not gonna turn out the way you think, the way you envision, the way you plan, guess what?

'cause they're their own people. And so we did learn this. We had muscle memory to an extent because of her three older brothers who have built or are building their own lives separate from, you know, the vision right, that John and I had as parents, right? So you do call on that now, raising a transgender child is raising a child.

Yes. You've gotta learn things. You've gotta learn, um, to the best of your ability. And you can never really understand. You can never really feel [00:09:00] what it's like to be in their shoes as a transgender person. What you can do is be the best dang parents and advocate and ally you can. So we didn't have all the answers.

We had very few answers. What we had, Angela, was love, and for LGBTQ+ kids. I don't know if you felt this, but for all of these kids, when they have that courage at a young age, to say to the people who love them - look, this is me, and my me may not be who you think I am, and this is me- When those kids have that courage and look, they have that courage more and more these days.

At such a younger age, right? Like nearly one out of three Gen Zers ages. So we're talking about like ages 12 to 22. 

[00:10:05] Angela: Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:05] Jen Grosshandler: Now, in this day and age, identify as part of the LGBTQ+ community. So these kids, these young people, they're here, they are communicating who they are. And the people around them are loving on them.

They're learning how to be the right people in their lives, and that should be inspiring for all of us. Does that make sense? 

[00:10:40] Angela: Absolutely. And I wonder though, like did you know anybody at the time you, you said your sister was, is a lesbian, your brother-in-law is gay as well? Did you know anybody in the transgender community though?

[00:10:54] Jen Grosshandler: So this is wild. That is such a great question. When I was eight years old, um, so I grew up playing tennis and I started playing, I had a racket in my hand, literally as I learned how to walk. And so I, you know, I was state ranked all the stuff. So I was born and raised in Atlanta. It was a big deal. And so.

I was on the circuit and as part of that you were able to ball, you were, you know, they called it ball girling for the top athletes, the world tennis players. And so I'll never forget, I was ball girling in the seventies in Atlanta, Georgia, for one of the, the premier tournaments. And I was on the court running around chasing the ball for all of these famous folks.

And I met Dr. Renee Richardson. And Dr. Richardson was really the first and most visible transgender woman who interestingly, you know, was on the circuit and who went on to be a fantastic and incredibly effective coach [00:12:00] to so many elite athletes. And so I met her and I chased the balls that, you know, she was practicing on.

So I remember being there and not understanding that Dr. Richardson was a transgender woman. I just knew that she was cool. 

She was cool, 

she was nice. She was approachable. You know, she helped others. She became a coach. It wasn't ever about her. She was good. She was good. Uh, but she wasn't the Chris Everett's of the world.

She wasn't the Martina Navratalova That's a whole story by the way. At some point, God, if we had a chance to talk about that, I would love to talk about that. 

[00:12:40] Angela: Oh, 

[00:12:41] Jen Grosshandler: um, 

[00:12:42] Angela: well, you'll have to come back so we can do that. 

[00:12:44] Jen Grosshandler: Yeah. So that's who I met. Okay. That's who I met. And that was, that was the only person. But ready?

Here's the rest of the story. When we as a family, were supporting Chazzie we're here in our community. We were as open and as visible. As anyone in the community, we were known in our community because we volunteered heavily, we're very involved in our schools, very involved in our communities. I was the first parent in our school district to help lead.

[00:13:16] The Origin of The GenderCool Project

[00:13:16] Jen Grosshandler: The charge of creating inclusive policies and helping to guide administrative procedures, not only in our school districts for our 11 elementary and middle schools, but then I brought that to our high school district. And so I was very involved and everyone knew us and so the community came along with us and I got a letter like not soon after Chasis told us who she was.

I got a letter. It was this email and the email said, Jen, uh, I wanna introduce myself. My name is Gearah I'm here in your community. You know me and you knew me as someone different, and I wanna introduce myself now. I'm a transgender parent, a proud mom of two kids. I live three blocks from you. I heard about Chazzie.

I can't tell you how. Grateful that you and John are the kind of parents that you're, that you're leading with love, you're leading with positivity. And I want you to know that my life as a transgender woman and parent has been nothing but positive. And I'm here for you. And if you ever wanna connect, I'll be there in two and half seconds. And you know what I did, Angela?

I wrote back in all capps: Come over now and like the next day. Yeah. Gearah was at our house. So Gearah has been the role model. She is Auntie Gigi to our daughter Chazzie. She is like, she is my sister, not from from blood, but [00:15:00] in every other way, shape or form. And she is the person who has been the most extraordinary positive role model.

Our daughter and for our family. 

[00:15:12] Angela: And this is where GenderCool was born, right? With both of you? Totally. So was that the origin of everything or how did it come about? 

[00:15:21] Jen Grosshandler: Yes. So when Chazzie told us who she was, and John and I said, it is time for us to be educated and go to work, we threw ourselves full throttle into this space of learning.

And folks told me, Jen, get on an airplane, go west and go attend this conference, this extraordinary gathering at that time called Gender Odyssey. And so I didn't just go to that conference. I brought with me, our school superintendent, our principal, our assistant principal. Like, I'm like, y'all, I'm gonna this, how would you like to come with me and let's all learn together.

And so we did this. So I went there. And it was a life changing weekend for me, Angela, because there I was surrounded by literally hundreds of, you know, families proudly raising transgender, non-binary kids. And I was going to into all these panels and all these workshops that were led that there, they were like on the stage, like 15, you know, transgender and non-binary young people, ages, I don't even know, like 9 to 16.

I sat there with my mouth open. 

[00:16:33] Angela: Wow. 

[00:16:33] Jen Grosshandler: Because I was listening to the most unbelievable stories of these young people who were launching businesses on their middle school campuses who were winning awards as riders. At age 14 who were winning awards as filmmakers at age 16. It was like one story after another.

They were so funny. These kids were hilarious. They were ambitious. They were kind, they were driven. It was incredible. So I got so excited, right? I was so, I'm like, this is awesome. And then when I got back home. And I started to look for that representation anywhere in the information ecosystem, online, offline.

My background is global marketing. I spent my entire professional career helping the biggest companies on the planet, you name it, anywhere from like Starbucks to Netflix, to McDonald's, you name it. And I have done work for them. I have helped them understand how best to connect to their current and future consumers.

So I know how to do this work. Well, when I looked and I tried to find any of these stories, I found [00:18:00] nothing. Zero. Or maybe like a potato chip in a Costco sized bag of potato chips. Of positive, 

[00:18:08] Angela: yeah. 

[00:18:09] Jen Grosshandler: Relatable human stories from these kids. That is where the idea came to me. That's where it came to me. That is where I was like, these kids are so cool.

Everyone's talking about this. What is gender identity? I'm just learning. I'm like, GenderCool. GenderCool, GenderCool. That's who they're, that's what this is. This is gonna be The GenderCool Project and the goal, like the ultimate goal that I've talked so little about that. I'm gonna start talking about more now that the world is different.

The ultimate goal was just to help folks. Everyday folks who say, still say that they've never met, 

[00:18:49] Angela: right? 

[00:18:50] Jen Grosshandler: Or had a personal experience with a young transgender or non-binary kiddo. We wanna help folks everyday. Folks just feel okay with whomever anyone else is. That's it. And so the mission of GenderCool

The mission is to help evolve misinformed opinions. Positive, powerful experiences, meeting transgender non-binary youth who are thriving just like I did. Just like what happened to me. So that was the impetus. 

[00:19:28] Angela: Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:28] Jen Grosshandler: For The GenderCool Project. 

[00:19:31] Angela: That's wonderful because I was speaking with a family member recently who's mentioned, you know, we're in Texas and they live in a different city, in a very small city outside of Dallas.

And were mentioning that they know a transgender kiddo, one, and I was just thinking multiple things. Number one, this kid who's so courageous to be themselves in a space where they might be the only person. You know, you mentioned the representation, and then I think about the parents who probably have so many questions.

And feel a little bit alone. I mean, I started this podcast because I was thinking about how, you know, my parents were getting together with their friends and talking about their kids as parents do. And I thought, do they know how to navigate this conversation about their child being gay? Are they worried about what they're gonna be met with on the other side?

And I think about this one kid who came to me through a story. Parents and these families need something like GenderCool to show them, you know, that they're not the only person and that they're also just a kid. It's like you said, everything you mentioned before about going to that conference in California and you mentioned these kids are, you know, thriving and they're ambitious and whatever, and I'm like, they're a kid.

They're, they're a person. You know, they want what everybody else wants. It's no different. And I'm sure you've realized it's no [00:21:00] different than the three boys you raised. This is your daughter who wants the exact same things they do. 

[00:21:06] Jen Grosshandler: Absolutely. Absolutely. And you've said so many important things that I wanna touch on Angela.

One is, you know that family? Mm-hmm. You spoke to in Texas. So look, we know that there are hundreds of thousands of transgender and non-binary kiddos in this country, and they're in all of the states. And they are in the smallest towns to the largest cities. We know this. I know this. I am a person who has had the joy, the privilege of actually hanging out with hundreds of transgender, non-binary young people from all over the dang country.

So I want nothing more for that family than to be connected to other families like ours because there is such comfort and effectiveness and productivity when we're all together. So first of all, you feel free to let them know. I'm like, I'll like cook them dinner, have them come here, they can visit us, they can hang out with us.

Like I would do anything. I will do anything for parents of transgender and non-binary young people and for those young people because I feel so strongly about our future and I feel so positive. And I know that's a weird thing to say right now when it feels like we are in an asteroid field and we're, we're in really, really

difficult and unexpected times. So we'll talk about that in just a sec. But I wanna go back to the last part of what you said. So Chazzie, you're like, you know what? So your daughter probably wants like the same things as your sons and this and that. You could not be more, right? So listen, this one, this daughter of ours, she is on fire.

She is living her best life. So she grew up volunteering. That was a very important thing to her. Here in our community, we are nearly 50% Latino. So I grew up in my professional career speaking Spanish, you know, working professionally in the Latino community. So being bilingual is something that not only I am, but that Chazzie feels very, very strongly about and very drawn to.

And so that is something that she is pursuing, and she was the first transgender person ever to give the commencement speech at her high school in both English and Spanish. 

[00:23:52] Angela: Gosh, 

[00:23:53] Jen Grosshandler: she is going on to the University of Arizona in Tucson. She's starting next year because of the [00:24:00] diverse set of voices. That are represented on that campus.

She is doing a fellowship this summer with our congressman, who is Congressman Brad Schneider, who is an incredible super ally to the community. So I'm sharing all these things with you because Chazzie is driven to give back. To be a role model herself. She spends so much time speaking with young people all across the country and the world across geographies who sort of need to be able to spend time with young people, young adults who have gone through it.

So Chassi has been out and open since she was 11 years old, since we launched the The GenderCool on the Today Show. Where for 23 minutes, we made history with five other incredible families raising the most extraordinary young people, their kids. We all did this together and now these young people have gone on to do the most remarkable things, and they, like Chazzie,

They know that they have a responsibility to live their best lives. For many of them to be those role models. 

[00:25:27] Angela: I'm so struck listening to you. I really am as a person and as an LGBTQ person, just how important it is to have people who have parents, specifically who are our biggest allies and advocates.

I often talk about how you don't have to be the parent on the float of a pride parade when your kid comes out to you. You just have to show them love and support. And you have done both. You've done, I mean, you were just on the Kelly Clarkson show. I saw you guys GenderCool on there and wonderful. You know, y'all are waving the flag for the community and it's amazing and wonderful.

[00:26:10] Advice for Parents

[00:26:10] Angela: And because of that, I would love to ask you for the parent who's listening to this, and it's so inspired by you, but also. Might be in that beginning place, like when Chazzie came out to you. You know, there's still a little fear for every parent whose child is coming out as lt lgbtq, but for that parent who has a trans kiddo specifically, what would you tell them if they're in that space of, I think my child is trans, or my child is trans, just came out to me.

Now what? Now what am I supposed to do? Right. Or feel, or what have you. 

[00:26:43] Jen Grosshandler: So this is so unbelieveably relevant. I actually just had this conversation, uh, a couple days ago, a newer parent, um, exactly this person who you are describing, and I think there are four, maybe five things that I wanna be [00:27:00] really focused about here.

The first lesson I've learned is one belief. Your kid, when your kid comes to you and says what they say, believe them. That simple act. You don't have to understand. You don't have to have any answers. You don't have to have particular feelings or feel whatever you're gonna feel. We're gonna get to that in a sec.

The first thing I would say is believe them and when you believe them, 27 different doors are gonna open for y'all. So many doors. So that's the first thing. The second thing is, and this may seem so common sense. I'm gonna say it. Choose positivity. I cannot tell you the number of parents who I speak with who after we talk, they say, you know, Jen, I didn't even know I had a choice.

[00:27:58] Angela: Oh, wow. 

[00:27:59] Jen Grosshandler: I didn't even know that I had a choice for how to respond. I sort of thought that the default of feeling fear was something that I just had to not only latch onto, but I had to fuel that fear. So I'm not saying let's be like all, like everything's great and let's just be, and it's all great. I'm not saying be a robot.

We're not dang robots. We're human beings. We're gonna feel all of this stuff. Feel your feelings and you can choose positivity, like frame this in your mind to say, look, this is a cool kid of mine. This kid's gonna do important things in their lives. I am gonna choose this approach of I'm gonna be positivity forward as I learn, as I deal with my own feelings as a parent.

Those two things are gonna happen, and I'm gonna show my kid this sense of positivity forward. That will reinforce you as a parent, and that is fuel for your kid. I'm shouting this. The third thing is surround yourself with positive role models. That's what I did. That's what I did. I got to work. I met Gearah.

She is now my sister. She is Chazzie's aunt. I in concert with the most extraordinary families and our other founders, including John, my husband, who was so awesome. We surrounded ourselves with role models who had been on the path before us, and I cannot tell you how important that is and how that has helped me be the kind of person, parent, leader, advocate that I wanna be. The next thing is, this is a big one, you ready? Embrace change. And I think I talked about that [00:30:00] earlier in the conversation. Y'all embrace change because we may think as parents that our kids are on one path or another, but I'm here to tell you that Chazzie's these's three older brothers have chosen their own distinct paths.

And when you embrace change, when you are flexible and nimble and say, what is the most important thing for me as a parent? For me personally, it has been to love my kids, to believe in them, to not be that helicopter, but to be their - we're learning about to be like an unpaid consultant. John and I are their consultants.

We're our kids' unpaid. 

[00:30:48] Angela: I love 

[00:30:48] Jen Grosshandler: that 

And that's what we do. And because I have been around the block and I am a parent of a certain age, right? I've done it. And to be those unpaid consultants has proven to be so beautifully successful. So, you know, those are the things that I would share. 

[00:31:09] Angela: What a great to say - unpaid consultant because it, I immediately think of just being open, you know, being open and embracive of what comes.

[00:31:21] Jen Grosshandler: Absolutely, absolutely. 

[00:31:25] Angela: Yes. Jen, I can't thank you enough for today. I can't, like, just meeting you has been a gift for me. Truly. I mean that. And thank you for everything you're doing with GenderCool. It, it's a big inspiration and I'm just so glad that we got connected. 

[00:31:40] Jen Grosshandler: I'm so glad we have two. And if I can leave you and your, you know, your followers with one last thing Right.

I want folks to know, and I want y'all to listen to my voice. Right now in our country, there are a small group of folks with a great deal of power. Yes. And money. Who are trying to do the most egregious, illegal, and unconstitutional things to families raising transgender and non-binary young people, and to also to all other marginalized communities.

Not only are they not going to hold, they are not going to last because there are too many people like Angela, like you, like our family, who are here in this country, and we're here and we're going nowhere and. Folks in this country do not [00:33:00] wanna get up in the business of how other families are raising their kids.

So when folks feel fear, when they see all of this stuff that is happening, I am in the inner circle now of all of this, and I'm telling you that our courts are holding up, the legal landscape is holding up. Parents raising these kids. We are more visible, not less, and that is the way it's gonna be. So y'all have to be strong.

Y'all have to do the things that we talked about. Self-care. Do these things because the future is going to be driven by our kids and our family. This is the country they want. This is the country we're going to help them have. 

[00:33:54] Angela: Thank you for that.

I wanna thank Jen for joining me on this conversation today and for sharing the story of her amazing family.

If you wanna learn more about The GenderCool Project, visit the show notes. I have the link in there where you can find out more information about GenderCool. I'd also like to give a special shout out again to Lisa Brennan who connected us. Lisa, I appreciate you so much, and honestly, the L-G-B-T-Q kid in me is so appreciative of parents like Jen and Lisa.

Thank you friends for sharing this space with me today. I'm very glad to be back and to share those stories with you.

Hey everyone, thank you so much for joining me on today's podcast. If you like today's episode, please share it with someone who will get value from it as well. And please head to Apple Podcast to rate and review this podcast so that our The Gay Podcast for Everyone community and friends can find.

Thanks again everyone. Until next time.