Episode 17. Part 2: Creating a podcast: a chat with Nichole Abshire, co-host, Go Behind the Ballot podcast

[00:00:00] Angela: Hi everyone. Welcome to part two of my chat with Nicole Abshire, co-host of the podcast, go behind the ballot. Nicole and I have been writer friends for a while, and now that we're both podcasting, I thought it would be fun to talk about that process, talk about what we've learned in this podcasty space.

[00:00:18] And just talk about the process of creating in general. So I hope you get some value from this episode, and hopefully it's motivating too. And if you're interested in podcasting, I have a couple of blog posts up on my blog that talk about the non-technical side of podcasting, A lot of the unexpected things that came up for me when I decided to do this.

[00:00:35] So if you're interested in checking those out, you can find those at angbriones.com/blog. I'll put that link in the show notes as well as the link to Nicole's podcast and social. All right you guys. This is my Podcasty chat with Nicole Abshire. So in the first part of this episode, we talked about how your, your podcast came about, like it was a surprise to you.

[00:00:56] You were like, if somebody told me I was gonna do a podcast about Texas politics, I would not have believed that. Right. So let's kind of shift and talk about the process of podcasting itself, because that's a whole other skill, right? Did you have that skill before you started ? No. Okay. Cause I didn't either, right?

[00:01:16] Nichole: 

[00:01:16] Not even kind of. But I, I love that it is actually relatively simple. I mean, there is definitely a learning curve. I had, I did have to learn a lot, but it is very doable. So, no, I didn't have, I didn't have any of this. I mean, honestly, I, it's like I'm looking at this microphone and it's like mm-hmm.

[00:01:38] all of that. I mean, we're so lucky that we have. . Yeah. Right. Because then what I did was just, you know, you start searching, like, how do you make a 

[00:01:48] Angela: 

[00:01:48] I do that so many times with regards to Instagram. Like if I'm doing a reel, um, and I know you're on TikTok, which, hello, that's a whole other level, . And I'm like, Nicole's killing it cuz I, I've taken like five hours to do this two minute reel on Instagram.

[00:02:03] 

[00:02:03] Nichole: but what's so funny is like my level of TikTok, I feel like is, is so. . I was gonna call myself. Pitiful. I'll be a little kinder than that, but it's um, I mean I basically do the same thing every time, right? Which is that I do a green screen and I, so I put something behind me, kind of point to it and talk about it and then wrap it up.

[00:02:26] Um, that's my, I love That's awesome. Oh wait, that's not true though. I have made some other like little slideshow video things, cuz they actually have pretty decent templates on TikTok. Anyway, TikTok is an interesting. , I've gotta give it some props. It's 

[00:02:40] Angela: Would you say it's enhanced your podcast?

[00:02:43] Like is it, is it helping? Like share the story actually, 

[00:02:47] Nichole: so here's what is interesting. Since you're asking, we've reflected on it and. No . It doesn't seem like it has. Okay. We have always meant, you know, I would imagine you've done a lot of this thinking too, which is sort of like, what is the destination for our audience, right?

[00:03:06] And so what is the role that social media plays, right? For some people, maybe the destination is, engaging with our social media. That's what we thought might be the case. And so we kind of looked at social media as maybe a supplement to the podcast, like maybe some people would only stay there and engage with us there.

[00:03:27] And so that was our wonder. Now that we've been at it for, I guess it's almost seven months at this point, that doesn't seem to be the case. We've had incredibly slow growth on social. , relatively little engagement, and yet our podcast downloads have consistently built so it doesn't feel like, no, social media doesn't feel like the thing, it isn't a destination for people.

[00:03:58] Angela: Yeah. See I kind of, I mean, I'm only on Instagram, but I do feel like you just mentioned that level of engagement. I feel like the return of on in, on my time investment is very low. . Yeah. I'll work so hard on something and you know, it's, it's truthfully not about the likes or whatever it is about that engagement of.

[00:04:18] you know, of hearing from your audience and I'm usually very happy of hearing that feedback or whatever. However, it just seems like truthfully, that reel took me like three hours. I wish I were joking. , maybe it's not three hours, but it feels like three hours, truth be told. 

[00:04:36] Nichole: Well, there's, I would imagine you also just spend a lot of thinking time.

[00:04:40] before you're actually sitting down to create it. You're like, okay, what makes sense today? And by the way, your social media is on point. I love, love, love. Oh, thank you. It's so, thank you. Thank you's. So it's charming. I don't know. And it's very you. I love your social media. Oh, that means a lot to me, Nicole.

[00:04:55] I feel like ours is an afterthought. It's sort of like a, oh, I probably better post something. Um, so I really feel like yours is much more thoughtful. Thanks. It's really impressive. So it, thank you. It might be a time commitment for you, but it is really engaging, 

[00:05:11] Angela: so thank you. I appreciate that a lot. You have no idea.

[00:05:15] Um, question for you. Let me get back to the beginning of like, we're gonna start a podcast. You know, did you already have a microphone? Did you already, like, cuz for me, I did a lot of Googling, like you just said earlier, like, what kind of microphone should I get? This is probably my third microphone, just kind of leveling up.

[00:05:33] But I think my biggest challenge has been just the software recording, software editing, et cetera. On the technical side, what has been yours? 

[00:05:40] Nichole: Yes. So same terms of equipment. I've actually had the same microphone. That does feel, you know, like a, a lucky thing that the, the first one I chose is the one that I still use.

[00:05:52] Um, yeah, so equipment was, was a big deal. at first, you know, and would I understand how to integrate it with my computer and dude, I need a new computer. And all of that stuff was for sure challenging and intimidating at first. You know, cuz I don't consider myself a techy person. And so it was real easy to feel like, oh God, I don't know how to do this, how do I figure this out?

[00:06:15] Um, but it, it is very do. . And then in terms of yes, finding a platform, I will say maybe, um, something that's an advantage for me is that I do have a partner. I have a co-host, and so it is us together. Yeah. Going, okay, let's look at this software. Let's look at that one, and testing them together and kind of bouncing ideas.

[00:06:37] So yeah, we, we, you know, landed on kind of three recording platforms and just sort of chose. For ease of use. And it felt like it was really consistent for us. And um, but then the next challenge was, okay, but how do we edit? Are we gonna edit? Are we gonna hire that out? Mm-hmm. ? Yes. So it's, there's a lot of considerations and a lot of learning curves and at first it feels like a huge investment of time and energy.

[00:07:06] Angela: Yeah. And you mentioned something earlier and about age. You mentioned that in the part one of this podcast, uh, the, you said the 50 something group that gravitates towards your podcast. That's probably like the crux of your demographic, I guess, is what you were mentioning. Yeah, and you know, age has a lot to do with my perception of the podcast when I'm doing it.

[00:07:27] Um, I'm very grateful to YouTube, like you said, so that I can look up how to do things because so much of my struggle, so much of the hurdle. , I feel intimidated by the tech aspect of everything. Right. That's one challenge, but then a bigger challenge. And I know for you too, right? I suspect is just life.

[00:07:48] You know? You have your family, I have my partner, you have your husband, we have our corgis. Cute as they are. Keep us busy. Oh they are. Um, yes, they are so cute. But keep us busy. So like life is a challenge. Right. S what is your podcasting schedule and how does it fit into life? Well, 

[00:08:10] Nichole: I will say, I think something that I've learned when, when I.

[00:08:15] Couldn't deny my creative needs. Is that mm-hmm. , the way I was ever going to integrate any sort of creativity in my life was that I was gonna have to be willing to do it in I, what I call like the nooks and crannies of my life. Right? It's like, sure, it would be lovely to think that I could have a daily consistent schedule and routine, but the reality is that I.

[00:08:38] Um, there's, there are too many factors that I have to contend with, and so I, over time I've just become comfortable with that. And for me, what that means is that no week or day looks the same. So, for instance, for our podcast, when we, when we are kind of chasing somebody that we want to interview, , you know, either one of us will kind of have that connection, which sometimes really might mean that we've Googled and discovered that they happen to be a professor at the University of Texas.

[00:09:07] They're in town, and then one of us will start emailing them until they answer. Mm-hmm. . Um, but so what that means is, you know, sending a calendar invite, but you don't know what time they're gonna choose. I mean, obviously we send a calendar invite with when we are actually available. Yeah. But it means that one week we might.

[00:09:26] We usually don't have more than two interviews, but we might have two interviews. You know, one at nine o'clock in the morning one day, and one that's at three o'clock in the morning, two days later, one week we might have zero interviews. One week we might have to record our mini episodes, and maybe we both know that the next week gonna be busy, so let's record two at a time.

[00:09:45] So we might batch record a little bit. I mean, it is just very, it requires flexibility and a willingness to. to just essentially for us, stay committed to being consistent with our content creation. Like that's our number one. Mm-hmm. is making sure that we consistently have a Monday and a Thursday episode, however that happens.

[00:10:07] But, um, it varies a lot. 

[00:10:10] Angela: That's amazing. That's amazing. I don't have as many episodes as you guys. Um, I'm glad you mentioned flexibility and things kind of being inconsistent as far as your personal schedule, you know, just trying to fit it in because I was thinking the same thing before I jumped on this podcast.

[00:10:26] I was like, am I doing things wrong? I've got something scheduled, you know, a week from now. And then, you know, it is just kind of inconsistent as far as when the recordings go. . The only thing that has helped me is to have a consistent space that I can come to. But you right now are in a different space than you normally record in.

[00:10:45] and then that's gotta be like a mental shift. I've been such a 

[00:10:48] Nichole: baby about this. , . 

[00:10:52] Angela: I would be the same way though. I'd be like, I need my 

[00:10:54] Nichole: recording spot. I mean, I've, I've settled in with air quotes. Um, so, and for anybody listening, our, our house is being renovated, which is incredible. We're so grateful. But what it means is that I can't record in my usual spot.

[00:11:07] So I had like, set up my, my home studio and it was part. Purpose of that, of course, was to have the consistent place to record. Um, but I can't be in it right now. And so yes, I've had to, to change spots. So I mean, yes, when we talk about flexibility, it means in always, always flexible place, flexible times.

[00:11:30] You just, I have to embrace it. But you know, it, it gets easier of course, because yeah, I. I want to do this right. If I didn't wanna do this, then this would feel really burdensome. I wouldn't be open to being flexible. So I think it just speaks to how much I, I do want to do this. 

[00:11:51] Angela: I mean, I don't know how this is for you, but for me, I.

[00:11:54] I wanna do this too. However, or, and it is still a real mental challenge sometimes because it is harder than I thought overall. Like even though it's straightforward, it is a little more difficult than I, than I realized. That was, for me personally, that was probably the most surprising thing. I, I was like, oh, we're just gonna come, hit record and we're done.

[00:12:15] And there's so much more involved in that, especially social media wise. 

[00:12:19] Nichole: What about you? 

[00:12:19] 100% yes. Yeah, there, there is. So much more involved. Absolutely. I think this is another time where I'm gonna point out that I think having a partner makes things a little bit easier. Also, I think there's something to say for momentum.

[00:12:34] Like we set up from the beginning that we were gonna release two episodes a week, and once you start that right, yeah. You have to keep doing it . And so that can sometimes, A little overwhelming. Yeah. But also I think there's something about the momentum that carries us forward. It's like, we can't, we can't not do that at this point.

[00:12:57] Right. We, yeah, we have locked ourselves into that. And then you get creative though. It also creates some moments for creativity where, for instance, over the winter holidays, we re-released, you know, two of our favorite episodes. We each chose a. and re-released them so that we didn't have to have new content then.

[00:13:16] Mm-hmm. . And then with the winter storm. The winter storm recently really threw us off. Right? Right. Yes. We couldn't just was messy on both of our ends. And so again, we didn't have the, timing-wise, we couldn't create new content that involved a guest. So then we thought, you know what, then since the winter storm is what is the problem, let's make that an episode.

[00:13:39] So, or two episodes actually. So then. We read some articles about the winter storm, it gave us a chance to talk about infrastructure in Texas and you know, all that stuff. So, you know, it also kind of invites some creativity. That's 

[00:13:52] Angela: true. I hadn't thought about that. That is very true. I'm trying to remember, there's some sort of quote that kind of aligns with that.

[00:13:58] Well, you 

[00:13:59] Nichole: always have the best quote, so I'm gonna put some pressure on you. Like, you've got to remember 

[00:14:04] Angela: like when things are constrained, you know, it, it. Promotes that creativity. The quote is way better than that. I'm butchering it, but that's kind of the, the essence of it. But you do two episodes a week like that is blowing my mind.

[00:14:18] That is awesome. Is it January to December? Is there any sort of break 

[00:14:24] Nichole: The way that we think of the structure of our show is in in issue series. We have, you know, we had public education series, we had the election series, culture war series. We're about to have the um, uh, food insecurity series.

[00:14:41] And basically what wound up happening is that between culture wars and food insecurity, it wasn't technically a break , because we talked about the winter storm, but there was a little, we didn't have, you know, like a series back to. , I can't tell you what we're gonna talk about yet after food insecurity. I mean, it's looking like we might head back to education especially cuz it sounds like it's gonna be a big deal in the legislature.

[00:15:05] So we're kind of letting the legislature guide where we go next. So no, we don't have, I'm sure we're going to have to have that conversation because Summer gonna hit both of us. Right? Her kids are gonna be home, my kids are gonna be home. It will get. Complicated in terms of having that same flexibility to be able to record, so I'm sure we'll need to build something.

[00:15:28] But I bet what we'll do is still release to episodes, but some of them just maybe repeats. 

[00:15:33] Angela: Awesome. Yeah. I've gotta learn how to batch some episodes. Again, like you just mentioned, it does help to have that co-host and that partner for your podcast. I'm sure that that helps a lot go as far as accountability and drive and motivation.

[00:15:47] Interesting 

[00:15:47] Nichole: little things that you forget. Sure. Don't you just forget little things and. One of us will be like, Hey, we forgot to record an intro to that episode. Oh my gosh. You know? And thank goodness there's another book, right? . 

[00:15:59] Angela: Right, for sure. And I don't know about you, but you know, as far as the podcasting space goes, as far as creativity goes, I should say, recording a podcast and then releasing it into the world, I truly love how that feels like having a finished product.

[00:16:17] and the, you know, just from a creative aspect, it feels so good. I mean, it almost feels like, I mean, clearly I'm not releasing a short film, but , I feel like it's a little like mini, mini, mini short film. You know, like, here's a little piece, piece of my story or piece of a story and that creates a whole story.

[00:16:36] And it just, I love that feeling that something was complete and it's out there cuz many times. , you know, you can create something and until you release it into the world, I mean, you gotta let it go. That's a hard part too. That's a struggle as well. But I don't know if you've had that same feeling. 

[00:16:54] Nichole: Well, I don't even know if I realized it's one of those, like you don't know what you don't know.

[00:17:01] And I don't think I realized before this how important exactly what you're talking about would be to me. that finished product. Mm-hmm. piece of getting to Yes. Constantly create something and release it, and release it, and get used to the idea that they're, they're gonna be imperfect. Like that's, yes.

[00:17:20] Like now I feel so much more comfortable with that than I ever would've felt. I just re-listened to an episode where I heard myself, and I probably did it again, but I'm gonna be working on this. I said the word really a ridiculous number of times. within probably 15 seconds. And I cringe when I hear it , but at the same time, I can't hang onto it because we gotta move on.

[00:17:45] Right. But great. Okay. Yeah, I can learn now that I need to be really mindful about how many times I used the word really, and keep going. and there's something so important about that, that I want to believe is gonna translate across all of the creative things that I do. I hope you feel this way too, right?

[00:18:04] That I feel like we are building some really great muscles for not being so precious, for self-acceptance, for the confidence in just letting. 

[00:18:18] Angela: That is such a good point because not letting things be precious is a skill 

[00:18:24] Nichole: like it is huge. Say it again for the people in the back. . 

[00:18:28] Angela: Don't be precious with your content.

[00:18:32] That is something I'm still learning. I mean, you and I just talked about this before we started recording. You record your podcast audio and video, you know, so there's a YouTube component if anybody wants to watch that. That's awesome. Don't feel confident yet to do that. I'm, I'm working towards that skill, me just doing the audio component and letting it out into the world and many times it not being perfect.

[00:18:57] I've had to work on that. And Seth Goden, you know, if you know who Seth Goden is, he has this wonderful podcast called A Kimbo and a one particular episode he talked about. , is it speck? Like is it good enough? And things just have to be good enough to put out into the world. They don't have to be perfect.

[00:19:17] It just has to be good enough. And that is such a hard thing. 

[00:19:21] Nichole: It is such a hard thing. But aren't you glad you're doing it? 

[00:19:25] Angela: Yes. Cuz it feels so good when it's out in the world and you just feel. Kind of accomplished, I guess. You know what I mean? Like you're like, I did that, I did that thing, and it feels good.

[00:19:37] So, and you and I, two women over 45, you know, like, come on ladies, we can do this. We can do this. You know, share your voice. Whatever your story is, share your voice. You can do it and you can reach out to us. If you have any questions, we'll try to help. Oh, for sure, right? ? Yeah. 

[00:19:55] Nichole: I maybe have no business giving advice, but I'm happy to 

[00:19:59] Angela: do it.

[00:19:59] Same like you can reach out to us. You might get some interesting information back. I mean, maybe 

[00:20:06] Nichole: just kidding. Might also be brilliant. So let's leave space for that. You 

[00:20:11] Angela: never. You never know. Awesome. Well, thank you Nicole. I, I appreciate this part of the podcast too. Thank you. So fun.